Private Infrastructure Equity: The Overlooked Middle Market

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infrastructure investing has seen a


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surge in recent years both on the equity


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and debt sides as investors have come to


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appreciate the many benefits of the


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asset class which include attractive


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yields and inflation protection among


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many others despite this growing


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popularity misconceptions still exist


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and investors may actually be ignoring


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some of the most attractive parts of


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this Market we're seeing the biggest


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opportunity in that small lower end of


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the market if you look at the statistics


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80% of the capital being raised is in


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funds that are above a billion 70% of


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the capital being raised is just with


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five different platforms so we like


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investing in opportunities that are too


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small for those bigger platforms to


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invest in so think about distributed


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assets like battery storage think about


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small scale um data centers and


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therefore those projects are way too


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small for those larger platforms to


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invest in and this is the opportunity


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that we think is over looked


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underappreciated and where we see the


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best opportunity for our investors today


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that was Mina Pacho nmi and this is


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streaming income a podcast from bearings


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I'm your host Greg Campion coming up on


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the show Private infostructure Equity


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the overlooked Middle Market before we


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get into the conversation if you're not


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already following us and you're


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interested in hearing our latest


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thoughts on asset classes like high


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yield private credit real estate and


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more just search streaming income on


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Apple podcasts Spotify YouTube or


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wherever you get your podcast with that


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here's my conversation with Mina Pacho


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Nai all right Mina welcome to the


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podcast thank you thank you for having


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me excited to have you it's been a


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little while since we've had you on the


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show so yeah we've been working on good


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stuff so we're excited to be here


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awesome cool well uh for our our


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listeners who may uh not be familiar


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with you or have heard prior episodes


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can you talk a little bit about um Your


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Role at bearings and the group you had


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up maybe to start out yeah so um I run


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the Diversified alternative Equity team


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uh we invest in both private equity and


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infrastructure Equity we tend to focus


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on the small lower end of the market to


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help um our clients get access to kind


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of Niche strategies in both private


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equity and infrastructure and I know


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we're here to talk more on the


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infrastructure side today MH awesome


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awesome yeah and your team puts out a


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lot of great work too so anything we


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talk about today chances are there's


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something on bars.com that people can go


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check out so yeah let's dive in so we're


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going to talk about private


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infrastructure Equity today I mentioned


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in the intro that um you know we're


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seeing just a real growing popularity


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investing in infrastructure I think


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broadly speaking both on the uh Equity


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side and on the dead side I think


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there's a number of reasons behind that


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and of course you have all these kind of


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big struct structal trends like the boom


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in AI the the growing focus on climate


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and sustainability um Etc now your team


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is very much involved in investing


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across several different verticals I


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would say so digital infrastructure


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energy transition Transportation


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mobility and circular economy um to name


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a few of them so I'd like to talk about


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some of the Investments and some of the


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opportunities that you all see in those


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areas but maybe just to start as you


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look across all these different areas be


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interesting to hear you talk about what


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are the common elements that you see


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that are appealing from an investment


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standpoint yeah so it's a it's a great


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question especially for investors who


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are new to the asset class and are


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starting to build that allocation


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infrastructure Equity into into their


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portfolio from a top level down from a


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CIO level down view the way we think


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about it and how we think this is a good


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allocation into your portfolio is


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candidly we're starting with it a great


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diversifier it's a great diversifier


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given um you're most likely to have much


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uh corporate exposure corporate credit


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corporate Equity type exposure across


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your portfolio and as you mentioned um


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we're investing in a real asset so you


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have a hard asset it could be digital


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fiber it could be uh Edge Computing uh


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data centers it could be battery storage


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so the fact that you are diversifying


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with a hard asset um and a


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differentiated asset is is I would say


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number one two is uh the fact that we're


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investing in these assets where there's


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uh contracted revenues um so most of


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these businesses have contracted


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revenues you have the fact that you can


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foresee your cash flows um you have


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inflation escalators so it's really


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great uh as a kind of a downside


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protection for your portfolio uh where


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you're investing in these assets with


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predictable cash flows in assets that


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are frankly necessary you you need to


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have your your internet your your


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infrastructure there for your businesses


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for your home um and then the fact that


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you are also getting some potential


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upside and we can talk more about how


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our investments all have this kind of


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downside scenaria where you're going to


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get a steady cash flow but there's


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upside potential in those business


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models so um so one is like I mentioned


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in the beginning so you have that as a


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diversifier you have great assets


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contracted revenues inflation protection


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and the fact that it has the Tailwinds


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as you reference in your introduction


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right um we have a growing need for


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assets to help us in the energy


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transition we have a growing need given


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um everything going on with AI or even


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without AI just you know more and more


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demands for data um and not having a lot


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of latency in terms of having in your


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service so um information is is easily


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accessible and you can you can do what


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you need to do from a business


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perspective and you can sit at home and


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and watch all those shows on


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Netflix that's what it's all about it's


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all about backbone to support our


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consumption habits absolutely absolutely


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now you mentioned uh this idea that like


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uh there's this kind of inherent


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downside protection I guess with regards


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to investing in these asset classes that


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are backed by hard assets but also with


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you know upside potential for Capital


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appreciation tell me a little bit more


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about that capital appreciation side of


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things because I think that maybe is a


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little bit different than what you or


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some would historically think about from


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infrastructure right it's like seen as


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this like steady quasi boring asset


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class like right is that changing I


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guess is the question maybe the best way


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to think about it is uh within the


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spectrum of infrastructure we are


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tending to be in that value ad an


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opportunistic side so very similar to


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real estate you have your you can have


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an infrastructure core core Plus value


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at and opportunistic so you're right um


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infrastructure the boring what we call


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infrastructure 1.0 so your toll roads


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your airports um your standard Fair your


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large scale utility is really in that


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like what we what we call the core core


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Plus so infrastructure 1.0 Y where we


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see the biggest opportunity is in that


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value ad in that opportunistic so to


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your point you have you have elements of


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um that Baseline cash flow but you have


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the ability to have the capital


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appreciation because there may be


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additional projects that we can bring


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online so I'll just give you a quick


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example um we invested in a battery


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storage project uh about 30 megawatt in


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Texas um three you know um it would say


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small sale battery storage uh projects


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but when we made the investment we could


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see the contracted revenues


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um we saw the opportunity with those


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three assets but we also had a pipeline


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for 12 additional assets and therefore


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uh we were investing in the potential to


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develop those additional 12 assets so


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that is added um added Alpha in terms of


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as you you have your Baseline returns


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from those three initial projects and


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then you get that added Alpha as we


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bring those 12 projects online as we


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underwrite that um there's there is um


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there is that ability to foresee a


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baseline return and um and then we are


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just taking exe we're taking execution


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risk on generating another three four


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five 600 basis points more as we bring


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additional projects online and what


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we're seeing in the market is given all


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the capital that's been raised with the


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larger platforms there's a thirst and a


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demand for great platforms um and


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they're they're really interested in in


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buying up these different projects and


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platforms that we've been building kind


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of from the ground up okay okay so now


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in terms of returns and and obviously


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you know for compliance reasons and


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other reasons we don't really want to


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get super specific on right you know


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return expectations Etc but like it


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would be interesting just to hear so you


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made this distinction between


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infrastructure 1.0 and infrastructure


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2.0 is there a way or is there a way to


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wrap your arms around like targeted that


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targeted return potential between those


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two might differ or are the asset


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classes or sub asset classes too


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disparate to like generalize that yeah


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no I mean the the data is there in terms


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of where core and core Plus has been uh


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core core Plus has been in that four to


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six maybe seven um percent range um so


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that's like investment grade equivalent


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it's basically investment grade I mean


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and and our view candidly on that is if


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if you're going to be generating let's


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call it a six or let's be generous a six


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or 7% return on the core core Plus and


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um infra Equity you might as well just


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do the infr debt right and you're um and


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you're at the top of the stack as we


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think about infrastructure equity in


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that core Plus value ad and what we we


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call our infrastructure 2.0 you can


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basically be getting private Equity like


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return so you can be getting 14% to an


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18 19% um depending depending on the


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project depending on the


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jurisdiction um and also depending on


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timing right we've had great um Demand


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on um on having kind of dark b um and


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just general data data centers and


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availability um and so there's just been


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a lot of demand AWS has been buying a


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lot of those types of assets so you then


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you can see that um you can get on the


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higher end of that Spectrum so we like


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it we like it especially as um for


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insurance investors who know that they


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have to get an RBC charge um so you can


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basically be getting private Equity like


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returns with the infrastructure profile


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and with having some of that downside


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that I talked about earlier okay and I


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will just make a disclaimer here to say


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that these are targeted returns that


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we're talking about not guaranteeing


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returns yes past performance is no


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guarantee of future etc etc um okay so


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one of the things that you kind of


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alluded to there was uh what's going on


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in terms of the fun raising environment


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here so I mentioned up front you know


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we're seeing increased interest um and


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and a lot of demand obviously for


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infrastructure assets so you're seeing


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all kinds of infrastructure deals all


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kinds of uh mechanisms for financing


00:11:46.040 --> 00:11:48.750
them but what are you broadly seeing as


00:11:48.760 --> 00:11:50.509
you look out there and you know you're


00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:51.910
out there talking to investors what are


00:11:51.920 --> 00:11:53.430
you broadly seeing in terms of the


00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:56.750
fundraising landscape today it's highly


00:11:56.760 --> 00:11:59.350
concentrated so if you look at


00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:01.230
fundraising in the last call it five


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years 80% of the capital going into


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infrastructure has been going to Billion


00:12:06.160 --> 00:12:08.790
Dollar Plus business or funds and


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actually if you look at the last couple


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years about 70% of the capital raise has


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gone to five firms so um as a person


00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:21.629
who's been investing for over 20 years


00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:23.389
I've learned that following the herd is


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not a way to generate returns and so


00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:29.189
where we tend to be is in that um


00:12:29.199 --> 00:12:31.790
smaller segment of the market and what


00:12:31.800 --> 00:12:35.910
we love is we're buying building assets


00:12:35.920 --> 00:12:38.069
and we're basically selling it Upstream


00:12:38.079 --> 00:12:39.710
to some of these platforms where they


00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:41.189
have a lower cost of capital they've


00:12:41.199 --> 00:12:43.750
raised 2030 billion dollar they need to


00:12:43.760 --> 00:12:45.949
put their Capital to work and they need


00:12:45.959 --> 00:12:47.590
to put their Capital to work in these


00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:49.629
strategies around the energy transition


00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:52.069
they need to put their Capital to work


00:12:52.079 --> 00:12:54.629
recognizing um all the demands for power


00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:58.189
and energy so um that's how we see the


00:12:58.199 --> 00:13:00.870
market um we've always seen them we've


00:13:00.880 --> 00:13:02.389
always focused on that small lower end


00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:04.069
of the market as I referenced in our


00:13:04.079 --> 00:13:06.189
introduction on the private Equity side


00:13:06.199 --> 00:13:08.509
and very similarly on the infrastructure


00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:11.069
side and that's where you can be Niche


00:13:11.079 --> 00:13:13.829
and you can be nimble and and candidly


00:13:13.839 --> 00:13:15.910
just take advantage of just the flows of


00:13:15.920 --> 00:13:18.269
capital and take advantage of just all


00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:19.990
that Capital that's sitting out there


00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:22.750
with these bigger platforms um and


00:13:22.760 --> 00:13:24.590
basically provide them and give them


00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:26.990
access to an investment where they can


00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.710
deploy uh Capital um on on their end so


00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:33.230
we love that um we love that and seeing


00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:35.310
that imbalance the other thing that we


00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:37.629
do is not only are we directly investing


00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:41.189
in assets uh but we also do invest in


00:13:41.199 --> 00:13:43.509
managers so we spend you know teams that


00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:47.230
have spun out so um it that imbalance


00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:50.749
also enables us to um really be


00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:53.110
meaningful with these smaller newer


00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:55.910
emerging managers uh provide them with


00:13:55.920 --> 00:13:59.269
that Capital to um start out their firms


00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:01.590
and um get some preferred economics


00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:04.829
angry economics um which really accretes


00:14:04.839 --> 00:14:07.069
to the bottom line and um accretes to


00:14:07.079 --> 00:14:08.790
our investors let me just follow up on


00:14:08.800 --> 00:14:10.590
that because some of those stats you


00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:13.870
threw out there are pretty uh astounding


00:14:13.880 --> 00:14:17.230
in some ways I would say so so basically


00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:18.470
uh my understanding of what you're


00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:20.350
saying is heavily concentrated you


00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:22.870
seeing these kind of you know large or


00:14:22.880 --> 00:14:26.350
Mega funds uh raising almost all of the


00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:28.790
capital Did you say in the last is in


00:14:28.800 --> 00:14:32.150
the last last few years the top five


00:14:32.160 --> 00:14:34.910
managers have been like 70% of okay wow


00:14:34.920 --> 00:14:36.550
so that's super concentrated super


00:14:36.560 --> 00:14:38.350
concentrated and of course these these


00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:41.590
names have multiple products but I mean


00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:43.710
the fact that you know you have that con


00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:46.590
you know that manager concentration of


00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:51.389
five different managers being 70% of the


00:14:51.399 --> 00:14:54.230
allocations is it's really astounding


00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.749
right and look we saw that Dynamic 20 25


00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:00.110
years ago in the private Equity side and


00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:02.310
we've um in my career we've taken


00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:04.749
advantage of those opportunity sets and


00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:06.790
there are teams that are spinning out of


00:15:06.800 --> 00:15:08.910
these platforms so there there are these


00:15:08.920 --> 00:15:11.189
teams who have the experience who are


00:15:11.199 --> 00:15:13.910
spining out of these platforms and we


00:15:13.920 --> 00:15:16.310
are backing them and we are backing them


00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:19.189
and we're helping them um providing them


00:15:19.199 --> 00:15:21.590
with the capital um so that they can


00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:23.150
continue to do what they've done and


00:15:23.160 --> 00:15:24.910
what they've done for many years in


00:15:24.920 --> 00:15:27.629
their in their career and as I describe


00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:29.509
have them help them get back to Basics


00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:31.749
so these platforms that I referenc


00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:34.069
started out not raising $20 billion


00:15:34.079 --> 00:15:35.710
funds they started out by raising


00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:37.550
smaller funds and they had a lot of


00:15:37.560 --> 00:15:40.430
successes and through those successes


00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:42.990
they've gotten much bigger so when we're


00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:45.189
identifying individuals and teams to


00:15:45.199 --> 00:15:48.389
spend out those are teams who are saying


00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:50.629
look I don't want to deploy multiple


00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:52.990
billion dollars in a specific project I


00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:55.110
want to go back to basics in what I was


00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:57.670
doing 10 years ago and doing smaller


00:15:57.680 --> 00:16:00.150
smaller scale projects doesn't require


00:16:00.160 --> 00:16:02.389
all that capital and they're they're


00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:04.030
betting on their careers and that's what


00:16:04.040 --> 00:16:06.189
we that's what we do we like to bet on


00:16:06.199 --> 00:16:09.150
people um and having that alignment with


00:16:09.160 --> 00:16:14.309
them um where their success um is is is


00:16:14.319 --> 00:16:16.670
critical um for their careers there's


00:16:16.680 --> 00:16:20.829
not there's no fall back for them and um


00:16:20.839 --> 00:16:24.470
and we're and that's the type of um you


00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:26.389
know partnership that we look for um


00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:28.230
with our managers yeah yeah that that's


00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:31.150
really interesting how the the the sort


00:16:31.160 --> 00:16:32.829
of two parts of your business are kind


00:16:32.839 --> 00:16:34.870
of complimenting each other there where


00:16:34.880 --> 00:16:36.910
you have like the the direct Investments


00:16:36.920 --> 00:16:39.949
and some of these assets and then um the


00:16:39.959 --> 00:16:41.350
dynamic you just described you and I


00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:42.870
have talked about emerging managers on


00:16:42.880 --> 00:16:45.509
this podcast before and I think you and


00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:47.550
your team have all sorts of data that


00:16:47.560 --> 00:16:50.470
shows that you know historically what


00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:52.309
you've seen is like the performance of


00:16:52.319 --> 00:16:55.309
fund one two three tends to be on


00:16:55.319 --> 00:16:58.230
average much stronger than later funds


00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:01.910
as funds get bigger etc etc so um yeah


00:17:01.920 --> 00:17:04.270
sorry yeah no and I and I think it's


00:17:04.280 --> 00:17:07.829
even um in we have one of our white


00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:10.270
papers that also shows that data as well


00:17:10.280 --> 00:17:12.789
we've we've done that for infrastructure


00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.309
as well and it's even more a sounding


00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:18.110
and that kind of fund four plus to your


00:17:18.120 --> 00:17:21.029
point you see most of the performance


00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:23.590
really in the middle right like just


00:17:23.600 --> 00:17:26.630
hovering in that median return versus if


00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:30.070
you look at earlier um in the cycle for


00:17:30.080 --> 00:17:31.789
the fund One Fund twos fund threes you


00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:34.310
tend to see more first and second


00:17:34.320 --> 00:17:37.510
quartile maybe I should also add um just


00:17:37.520 --> 00:17:39.669
part of our toolkit right we're we're


00:17:39.679 --> 00:17:42.510
directly investing in assets um we're


00:17:42.520 --> 00:17:45.270
investing in managers but we also have


00:17:45.280 --> 00:17:48.310
more of a JB type structure um approach


00:17:48.320 --> 00:17:50.669
with some of our operating Partners in


00:17:50.679 --> 00:17:52.870
the strategy which is very Aken to and I


00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.270
would describe it to real estate where


00:17:55.280 --> 00:17:58.909
we may find you know great operating


00:17:58.919 --> 00:18:01.830
Partners who have experience who've been


00:18:01.840 --> 00:18:04.350
let's say in the power space for 15 20


00:18:04.360 --> 00:18:07.870
years um may have been successful with


00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:09.750
getting backed by a private Equity


00:18:09.760 --> 00:18:11.830
infrastructure fund and we're very


00:18:11.840 --> 00:18:13.430
comfortable working directly with those


00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.350
operating Partners in a JV type


00:18:15.360 --> 00:18:18.950
structure model um and and backing them


00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:21.830
in in you know a certain you know as


00:18:21.840 --> 00:18:23.549
they've identified a platform or project


00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:25.310
that they want to pursue within within


00:18:25.320 --> 00:18:28.870
their sector expertise Okay cool so um


00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:30.070
let's let's talk about a couple of


00:18:30.080 --> 00:18:32.510
specific examples because uh I want to


00:18:32.520 --> 00:18:33.750
understand this Dynamic a little more


00:18:33.760 --> 00:18:36.470
just so so my understanding based on at


00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.870
least part of um what you're saying


00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.470
around the fundraising environment is


00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:44.430
that you've got these Mega funds out


00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:46.110
there who have raised the vast majority


00:18:46.120 --> 00:18:49.470
of capital in this asset class they


00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:51.630
therefore have a massive amount of


00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:54.630
capital to deploy in the asset class


00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:56.149
therefore and we've seen this in some


00:18:56.159 --> 00:18:58.350
other asset classes as well um like


00:18:58.360 --> 00:19:01.669
Direct lending they they are obviously


00:19:01.679 --> 00:19:03.950
much more incentivized to go after the


00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:05.909
much bigger projects right much bigger


00:19:05.919 --> 00:19:08.230
Deals they need to just put dollars to


00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:10.789
work and it just it's inefficient for


00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.190
them to do smaller Investments because


00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:14.750
they they they they can't have a


00:19:14.760 --> 00:19:16.789
portfolio of a hundred Investments if


00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:18.669
they have a$ 20 billion fund right and


00:19:18.679 --> 00:19:20.430
you would just need a massive team to do


00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:22.270
like the proper due diligence on all


00:19:22.280 --> 00:19:25.710
those deals so therefore and this is me


00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:27.870
kind of jumping to the conclusion but I


00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:29.230
think this is what the conclusion is


00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:31.710
therefore the lower and middle uh end of


00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:34.630
the market is uh a more kind of


00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.070
inefficient market and maybe there's


00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:38.549
more value there so talk a little bit


00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:40.630
more about that concept and then maybe


00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:42.070
if there's an example or two you can


00:19:42.080 --> 00:19:43.870
provide that kind of helps illustrate


00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:45.990
this that would be interesting what we


00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:47.710
do at the end of the day as I kind of


00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:49.630
even described with this kind of battery


00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:53.430
storage project is um I describe it as


00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:56.470
we're building to core so we're building


00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.909
assets we're you we're pursuing these


00:19:59.919 --> 00:20:04.470
projects such that we're creating um a


00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:07.630
combined cash flow that can be sold


00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:10.430
Upstream to these bigger platforms as a


00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:13.190
core infrastructure because you have


00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:16.110
these contracted revenues so this is the


00:20:16.120 --> 00:20:18.110
one in Texas one Texas that we're


00:20:18.120 --> 00:20:20.430
talking about do this just support the


00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:22.590
overall kind of power grid or yeah it's


00:20:22.600 --> 00:20:24.270
support yeah exactly supporting the


00:20:24.280 --> 00:20:27.390
power grid but the the theme is the same


00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:30.350
across everything that we do we've done


00:20:30.360 --> 00:20:31.990
we've done Investments within the


00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.190
geothermal space we've done investments


00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:36.390
in digital fiber we have District


00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:39.909
Heating in the UK but the theme is still


00:20:39.919 --> 00:20:42.630
the same where we're building to core


00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:46.510
we're taking um um we're we're basically


00:20:46.520 --> 00:20:48.669
building assets that are small and


00:20:48.679 --> 00:20:51.190
modulized not as complex it's not like


00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:53.470
we're building large scale utility right


00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:56.190
the fact that we're doing small small


00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:57.750
modalized where you're not taking


00:20:57.760 --> 00:20:59.549
technology risk you're really just


00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:01.990
taking construction risk but it's not as


00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:05.149
complex right putting together um one of


00:21:05.159 --> 00:21:07.230
these you know the permitting is not as


00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:09.909
complex as a large scale toll road right


00:21:09.919 --> 00:21:12.350
it's not as demanding right and not as


00:21:12.360 --> 00:21:14.870
uh there's a lot of conversations about


00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:17.070
permitting and the the politics around


00:21:17.080 --> 00:21:20.230
getting these projects getting done so


00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:25.830
um we absolutely um love that dynamic


00:21:25.840 --> 00:21:28.590
because um what you see on the large


00:21:28.600 --> 00:21:31.950
larger scale projects is you are taking


00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:34.430
a lot of more regulatory risk you're


00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:38.430
taking on the impacts of weather really


00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:41.590
um can be um if you have a hurricane


00:21:41.600 --> 00:21:44.149
that hits in your large scale utility


00:21:44.159 --> 00:21:48.190
that impacts it but if you have um your


00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.310
your power being kind of stored in


00:21:51.320 --> 00:21:55.549
smaller modulized distributed in an MSA


00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:57.710
it's not you know if a hurricane hits


00:21:57.720 --> 00:21:59.789
it's not going to hit all of your assets


00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.390
at the same time so it Dr risks the


00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:06.710
investment just by the nature of how


00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:09.710
it's um it's distributed so we


00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:14.630
absolutely love that Dynamic there um so


00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:17.590
other maybe other kind of examples um


00:22:17.600 --> 00:22:20.190
can I just ask you what's what is MSA oh


00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:22.390
just a metropolitan you know the Metro


00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:25.590
are yeah yeah yeah so within an MSA you


00:22:25.600 --> 00:22:27.230
know so the Charlotte you know Los


00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:29.390
Angeles or


00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:31.549
I like how you were describing some of


00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:33.830
these assets as being like smaller


00:22:33.840 --> 00:22:36.549
modular distributed and therefore


00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.190
they're almost like uh less exposed to


00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:41.029
some of these big risks whether it be


00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:43.149
climate or even flying under the radar


00:22:43.159 --> 00:22:45.350
to some degree with regards to you know


00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:48.029
regulatory risks and um even some of the


00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:49.909
red tape around permitting and stuff


00:22:49.919 --> 00:22:52.630
like that um that that's super


00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:55.350
interesting is that I I know you um so


00:22:55.360 --> 00:22:57.510
so I mean that's the case I think that


00:22:57.520 --> 00:22:59.990
you described on the bad storage side is


00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.630
that um kind of a broad-based trend and


00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:04.830
I know I'm I'm curious I think your team


00:23:04.840 --> 00:23:07.950
did a a data center a deal in


00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:10.110
Pennsylvania it' be interesting to hear


00:23:10.120 --> 00:23:12.269
about that one as well yeah it was a


00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:15.950
hyperscaler and um and look we made this


00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.669
investment um years before the AI a


00:23:19.679 --> 00:23:21.870
conversation was happening in terms of


00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:24.190
the demand for energy so we had a


00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:25.789
hyperscaler and then our source of


00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:29.630
energy was um a lowcost energy clean um


00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:32.510
provider and we saw that opportunity so


00:23:32.520 --> 00:23:34.269
we saw the opportunity with the fact


00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:37.029
that you had that um the hyperscaler and


00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:40.710
then you had your your energy source and


00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:42.750
we thought there was value um so going


00:23:42.760 --> 00:23:44.870
back to the comment I made earlier right


00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:48.590
there is value in those two hard assets


00:23:48.600 --> 00:23:50.549
um we um understood the kind of the


00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:52.110
contracts um related to those


00:23:52.120 --> 00:23:54.909
hyperscalers but we saw the upside with


00:23:54.919 --> 00:23:57.909
them um because we we're I'm not going


00:23:57.919 --> 00:24:00.710
to say we we foresaw this you know


00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.710
Euphoria around AI but we knew that


00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:05.310
there was just going to continue to be


00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:07.029
more and more demand for energy right


00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:08.590
and if you think about what happened


00:24:08.600 --> 00:24:11.710
with um Bitcoin over these years right


00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:14.909
you you need to have the energy um the


00:24:14.919 --> 00:24:17.230
power to to run all the computers and do


00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:21.470
and do your um and do what you do as as


00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:26.350
a minor so that is um an example of


00:24:26.360 --> 00:24:28.789
where we sold that Upstream we sold that


00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:32.230
to pick pick one of your five fangs um


00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:35.510
um and they they really like the asset


00:24:35.520 --> 00:24:38.350
and um and they and they were able to


00:24:38.360 --> 00:24:40.870
pay more and because they needed that


00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.389
and they wanted to secure their their


00:24:43.399 --> 00:24:45.549
power um and we're seeing that


00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:46.950
thematically we're seeing that


00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:50.990
thematically we we have um um a dark


00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:53.510
fiber deal um in another large


00:24:53.520 --> 00:24:56.110
metropolitan area and I was just there


00:24:56.120 --> 00:24:59.269
earlier this week and um in that


00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:01.350
platform again one of I'll just describe


00:25:01.360 --> 00:25:03.230
it one of the fangs just said outright


00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:05.070
I'm going to buy 10% of your of your


00:25:05.080 --> 00:25:06.950
capacity of your fiber um in this


00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:09.430
Metropolitan because they are just


00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:12.149
trying to lock in um think about it


00:25:12.159 --> 00:25:14.350
locking in their capacity locking in so


00:25:14.360 --> 00:25:17.549
that they can have um their their


00:25:17.559 --> 00:25:20.190
ability to do what they need to do as


00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:22.110
their business continues to grow as they


00:25:22.120 --> 00:25:24.870
become continue to double down and they


00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:27.750
also foresee the just continued need for


00:25:27.760 --> 00:25:31.230
power to to fuel all that data um that's


00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:33.830
flowing through their their system yeah


00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:35.389
it it almost like comes back to this


00:25:35.399 --> 00:25:38.350
idea of um the the lower and middle part


00:25:38.360 --> 00:25:39.470
of the market being like this


00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:41.149
inefficient part of the market that may


00:25:41.159 --> 00:25:44.389
not make sense for either the big Mega


00:25:44.399 --> 00:25:46.789
infrastructure funds to go down into and


00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:49.630
spend a lot of time on or like I think


00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:51.269
you're referencing here with some of the


00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:53.430
fangs and others like these more


00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:56.510
strategic buyers y they may not have the


00:25:56.520 --> 00:25:59.230
time or resources to be going asset by


00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:01.029
asset and creating these types of things


00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:03.269
so I think one and it's necessary for


00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:05.590
their business right what happens if


00:26:05.600 --> 00:26:08.149
Amazon doesn't have access to power


00:26:08.159 --> 00:26:10.909
right what happens if Amazon doesn't or


00:26:10.919 --> 00:26:14.430
you know it it meta right so it's


00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:18.230
becoming so important and powerful and


00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:21.470
we've had this thesis um for over the


00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:23.470
last five seven years here on that's


00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:26.710
just where the trajectory is um and so


00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:28.549
as you think about infrastructure being


00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:32.230
a critical um critical item right


00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:34.110
historically it's been okay do you have


00:26:34.120 --> 00:26:36.110
water do you know do you have a you know


00:26:36.120 --> 00:26:38.029
an electricity but electricity and power


00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:39.870
is just even becoming more important and


00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:42.029
digital is just an important component


00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:44.830
of that now thinking about the economics


00:26:44.840 --> 00:26:46.230
of some of these deals I know I've heard


00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:48.590
you and the team talk uh in the past


00:26:48.600 --> 00:26:50.870
about kind of a valuation multiple


00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:53.070
Arbitrage so tell me a little bit more


00:26:53.080 --> 00:26:54.950
about that idea and what's going on


00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.230
there so the the buy versus build m


00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:01.029
multiple is how we think about it do you


00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:04.549
buy it um and we could see the multiples


00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:07.470
that are getting um for what these


00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:09.389
assets are trading at okay I'm going to


00:27:09.399 --> 00:27:11.269
just pick a data center if picking data


00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:12.870
centers is where you're buying you could


00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:16.149
buy it at 20 times multiple or do you


00:27:16.159 --> 00:27:19.269
build it at the smaller scale at


00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:22.310
significantly lower than that um and


00:27:22.320 --> 00:27:24.630
aggregate multiple projects multiple


00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:27.590
entities to basically as you aggregate


00:27:27.600 --> 00:27:30.389
it you can can get the dynamic of having


00:27:30.399 --> 00:27:32.909
a better buy you know you could get that


00:27:32.919 --> 00:27:36.190
multiple Arbitrage as um you sell it up


00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:39.669
Market okay so it's cheaper uh to build


00:27:39.679 --> 00:27:42.630
the assets at a small scale so that that


00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:45.669
that build multiple is lower but then as


00:27:45.679 --> 00:27:47.509
you build more of these assets and you


00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:50.750
end up with something that is of scale


00:27:50.760 --> 00:27:52.310
and something that these bigger players


00:27:52.320 --> 00:27:53.590
are willing to pay up for that's where


00:27:53.600 --> 00:27:55.310
you see that Arbitrage absolutely and we


00:27:55.320 --> 00:27:57.149
don't underwrite for that Arbitrage to


00:27:57.159 --> 00:27:59.509
be clear in terms of how conservative we


00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:02.110
are but that that goes back to PO you


00:28:02.120 --> 00:28:06.029
know one of the components of the um the


00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:09.669
thetion that you can have um investing


00:28:09.679 --> 00:28:12.149
in this segment of of the market so it's


00:28:12.159 --> 00:28:13.870
not underwritten for it we'll we'll


00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:16.430
we'll take it when someone wants to pay


00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:19.950
2x the multiple that we built a specific


00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:22.750
format sure sure um okay I just want to


00:28:22.760 --> 00:28:26.110
ask you just in terms of sourcing deals


00:28:26.120 --> 00:28:28.909
um you know you mentioned


00:28:28.919 --> 00:28:31.310
relationships with various operating


00:28:31.320 --> 00:28:36.110
Partners um uh in other Partnerships


00:28:36.120 --> 00:28:37.590
just uh let's talk a little bit about


00:28:37.600 --> 00:28:38.710
that because I'd be interested


00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:40.830
everything from like Texas battery


00:28:40.840 --> 00:28:42.990
storage to this hypers scale or data


00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:44.590
center like be interesting to hear like


00:28:44.600 --> 00:28:47.750
where some of these deals come from so


00:28:47.760 --> 00:28:50.190
as as um we've talked about in different


00:28:50.200 --> 00:28:52.669
podcasts before right we're we've


00:28:52.679 --> 00:28:54.950
exclusively been focused on always


00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:56.389
investing on the small lower end of the


00:28:56.399 --> 00:28:58.350
market right I mean we have a reputation


00:28:58.360 --> 00:29:01.070
as a firm as a team to really know how


00:29:01.080 --> 00:29:03.470
to invest um with smaller managers in


00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:05.830
the smaller segment of of the market


00:29:05.840 --> 00:29:08.830
because we've backed um some of these


00:29:08.840 --> 00:29:10.509
platforms that are now om megas we've


00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:13.269
know a lot of the individuals the teams


00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:15.310
from over the years so there's that


00:29:15.320 --> 00:29:18.110
natural connectivity there but there's


00:29:18.120 --> 00:29:20.110
just uh there's just so much talent


00:29:20.120 --> 00:29:21.549
there's so much talent that's come out


00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:24.630
of even um you know your your


00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:26.470
traditional um they could have been


00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:28.669
someone who came out of the energy space


00:29:28.679 --> 00:29:30.669
right had worked at an energy company


00:29:30.679 --> 00:29:33.070
they know what they're doing um with one


00:29:33.080 --> 00:29:35.029
of our operating Partners was a you know


00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:38.509
three-time CEO um in the Telecom space


00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:42.190
and so we're exploring opportunities um


00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:44.830
with him um because he sees the market


00:29:44.840 --> 00:29:47.190
and obviously is a proven track record


00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:49.990
of um running businesses in in the


00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.310
Telecom space so it's it's all of the


00:29:52.320 --> 00:29:54.750
above um look I always say my job is to


00:29:54.760 --> 00:29:57.350
look under every Rock um and look at


00:29:57.360 --> 00:29:58.789
every opportunity


00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:03.190
and and ensure that we have the broadest


00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:05.870
funnel to see that we're making the best


00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:08.230
investments um within a given vintage


00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:10.149
year or a given you know couple vintage


00:30:10.159 --> 00:30:13.110
years and so having having that openness


00:30:13.120 --> 00:30:15.909
to look at everything uh really informs


00:30:15.919 --> 00:30:17.950
us I mean the other thing I'll just talk


00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:20.070
about I think is a big differentiator in


00:30:20.080 --> 00:30:23.310
what we do especially for investors um


00:30:23.320 --> 00:30:25.029
who are newer to the asset class they


00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:27.590
really are drawn to the fact that um we


00:30:27.600 --> 00:30:28.509
have our


00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:30.789
we have our own set of what I call our


00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.110
library of our kpis so what does that


00:30:33.120 --> 00:30:37.269
mean so um if you are um for all the


00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:40.070
different sectors we have our own data


00:30:40.080 --> 00:30:42.470
points and statistics on what are the


00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:44.549
specific Milestones or what are some of


00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:47.590
the kpis of a business in the digital


00:30:47.600 --> 00:30:50.870
space or what it should be in um what


00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:52.830
you know whatever in you know District


00:30:52.840 --> 00:30:56.310
heating so it's those that data point


00:30:56.320 --> 00:30:59.190
that helps us not only determine as new


00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:01.509
opportunities come in is this a good


00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:03.389
business model is this a business that's


00:31:03.399 --> 00:31:05.470
going to be successful are they doing


00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:06.870
something different that's going to set


00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:09.789
them up for success and so we aggregate


00:31:09.799 --> 00:31:11.950
all of that we leverage our operating


00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:15.310
Partners we leverage our just managers


00:31:15.320 --> 00:31:19.310
that we've given Capital to to um really


00:31:19.320 --> 00:31:21.310
kind of help us determine as we're


00:31:21.320 --> 00:31:23.230
making those direct Investments if we're


00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:24.909
making those direct investments in


00:31:24.919 --> 00:31:27.430
assets um we've seen a ton of deals like


00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:31.789
fiber the home um we've seen a lot of um


00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:35.190
uh transactions in the um School busing


00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:37.590
which uh you know is a quasi


00:31:37.600 --> 00:31:39.629
infrastructure type deal so we even have


00:31:39.639 --> 00:31:41.629
statistics on what's been the driver


00:31:41.639 --> 00:31:45.470
turnover what's been um you know how


00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:47.430
much is the capex and how quick how


00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.629
often do you have to um change out your


00:31:49.639 --> 00:31:51.870
bus fleet so it's having those data


00:31:51.880 --> 00:31:54.990
points that when we see New Deals come


00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:57.110
in we can evaluate and say well the last


00:31:57.120 --> 00:32:00.909
five deals this range of data um data


00:32:00.919 --> 00:32:02.950
points in terms of those kpis where does


00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:05.750
this fit in and it just makes us better


00:32:05.760 --> 00:32:09.230
investors um and then for our partners


00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:11.629
um we provide them that feedback it's


00:32:11.639 --> 00:32:14.590
like we we like you we like your deal


00:32:14.600 --> 00:32:18.070
but um the kpis for your business or


00:32:18.080 --> 00:32:21.070
your your expectations or your margins


00:32:21.080 --> 00:32:22.549
in our you know we'll give them that


00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:24.549
feedback that are not up to our standard


00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:25.909
and therefore that's why we're passing


00:32:25.919 --> 00:32:27.950
and it just makes us a better business


00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:30.549
partner with with um with our managers


00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:33.509
as well awesome that's cool all right so


00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:35.629
um just to finish it up here I wanted to


00:32:35.639 --> 00:32:37.950
kind of like zoom out a little bit and


00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:41.070
take it back to the investor or LP seat


00:32:41.080 --> 00:32:43.110
and just think about two things really


00:32:43.120 --> 00:32:45.230
that I'm curious about one is you know


00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:47.310
you had mentioned insurance companies as


00:32:47.320 --> 00:32:49.110
investors in this asset class upfront so


00:32:49.120 --> 00:32:51.430
it' be interesting to hear about just


00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:52.870
broadly like where you're seeing


00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:55.149
interests from a client perspective and


00:32:55.159 --> 00:32:57.470
then secondly if you think there's any


00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:00.149
Miss conceptions that remain out there


00:33:00.159 --> 00:33:01.389
around this asset class it'd be


00:33:01.399 --> 00:33:03.509
interesting to hear about those we're


00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:05.110
seeing interest from all types of


00:33:05.120 --> 00:33:08.070
investors so it could be state pension


00:33:08.080 --> 00:33:09.669
plans it could be corporate pension


00:33:09.679 --> 00:33:12.870
plans um insurance companies I think


00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:14.470
there a lot of these investors are


00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:17.389
seeing the value um they're concerned


00:33:17.399 --> 00:33:19.350
about inflation and they like the fact


00:33:19.360 --> 00:33:21.509
that you have a hard asset you have the


00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:23.789
inflation protections of contracted


00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:26.470
revenues um so they really like that


00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:29.269
profile um there's really two big


00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:32.269
misconceptions um one is that investors


00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:33.830
think infrastructure they think this


00:33:33.840 --> 00:33:37.710
lower return and lower you know yielding


00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:40.350
lower returns so think generally kind of


00:33:40.360 --> 00:33:42.870
from a return perspective in that like 6


00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:45.669
to 8% on a best case scenario which


00:33:45.679 --> 00:33:48.269
really correlates to core core Plus and


00:33:48.279 --> 00:33:50.870
what we described as an infrastructure


00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.590
1.0 um but as we've talked about


00:33:53.600 --> 00:33:55.430
throughout this whole podcast there are


00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:57.389
opportunities to generate more private


00:33:57.399 --> 00:33:58.389
equity


00:33:58.399 --> 00:34:00.269
uh returns and do you think about


00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:03.310
investing in that value ad and that


00:34:03.320 --> 00:34:06.310
opportunistic um the second I would say


00:34:06.320 --> 00:34:08.310
big myth out there is that


00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:10.190
infrastructure requires billions and


00:34:10.200 --> 00:34:11.950
billions of dollars and therefore that's


00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:13.950
why you need to have these Mega funds to


00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:15.510
go after these opportunities and


00:34:15.520 --> 00:34:17.550
hopefully throughout this um whole


00:34:17.560 --> 00:34:20.069
conversation we've been able to um help


00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:23.510
you understand that it is um the


00:34:23.520 --> 00:34:25.510
opportunity is not on the larger end of


00:34:25.520 --> 00:34:27.389
the market it's in that smaller end so


00:34:27.399 --> 00:34:29.669
therefore for being a smaller manager


00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:31.869
with less than a billion dollars still


00:34:31.879 --> 00:34:34.190
is um is the place to be because you are


00:34:34.200 --> 00:34:36.990
able to take advantage of um these


00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:39.349
smaller scale projects again aggregating


00:34:39.359 --> 00:34:41.550
them to be to potentially being larger


00:34:41.560 --> 00:34:43.190
that can be bought by the bigger


00:34:43.200 --> 00:34:46.230
platforms and so you don't need to be


00:34:46.240 --> 00:34:48.950
large to invest in the asset class which


00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.470
is really also great for those smaller


00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:54.389
institutional investors um who don't


00:34:54.399 --> 00:34:56.909
have you know they may have a 105


00:34:56.919 --> 00:34:59.589
billion total portfolio so you don't


00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:01.950
need to have a lot of capital to be a


00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:05.390
player um in the infrastructure space so


00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:07.230
um those are I would say are the biggest


00:35:07.240 --> 00:35:09.790
myths um or misconceptions that I see in


00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:12.550
the market and um and hopefully we're


00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:14.270
you know we'll have an opportunity to


00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:15.710
connect with you all who are listening


00:35:15.720 --> 00:35:17.950
who um to to see that there is this


00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:19.790
opportunity to generate these great


00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.950
great returns and invest in in areas of


00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:25.550
the market that are growing um and


00:35:25.560 --> 00:35:28.310
frankly inaccessible by in the public


00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:30.589
markets and and probably inaccessible


00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:32.470
with your exposure to the larger end of


00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:34.710
the market awesome well thank you I


00:35:34.720 --> 00:35:38.030
think we have hopefully uh done a good


00:35:38.040 --> 00:35:39.470
job kind of shedding some new light on


00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:40.990
this asset class today I certainly feel


00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:42.550
smarter about it hopefully our listeners


00:35:42.560 --> 00:35:45.030
do too um and and hopefully we cleared


00:35:45.040 --> 00:35:47.390
up some of these misconceptions about um


00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:49.030
the private infrastructure Equity space


00:35:49.040 --> 00:35:51.230
especially in that smaller to um kind of


00:35:51.240 --> 00:35:53.510
mid part of the market so Mina thank you


00:35:53.520 --> 00:35:55.230
very much I really appreciate this thank


00:35:55.240 --> 00:35:57.750
you for your time thanks for listening


00:35:57.760 --> 00:35:59.670
to or watching this episode of streaming


00:35:59.680 --> 00:36:02.150
income if you'd like to stay up todate


00:36:02.160 --> 00:36:04.390
on our latest thoughts on asset classes


00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:06.390
ranging from high yield and private


00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:09.150
credit to real estate debt and Equity


00:36:09.160 --> 00:36:11.069
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00:36:13.720 --> 00:36:16.910
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00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:18.910
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00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:21.150
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00:36:21.160 --> 00:36:25.150
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00:36:25.160 --> 00:36:27.710
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00:36:27.720 --> 00:36:31.280
see you next time